To Cleric or not to Cleric

 My impulse so far has been to remove the cleric, shifting some of its magic to the Magic-User and make turn undead doable by anyone (essentially with in-fiction caveats/requirements).

A compelling argument was put forth on the ClericsWearRingmail discord (CWR blog link) about keeping Clerics in a Sword and Sorcery style setting, citing THIS blog post (vyrhex blog).

I must say, I do enjoy this interpretation, but for my currently floating around ideas on religion and magic in Tolras I am still not sure that the Cleric fits for me.

I found THIS post on the Melancholies and Mirth blog that, while not explicitly talking about swords and sorcery, I feel fits in/helps contextualize the Cleric. Not sure if it is way off topic here but it is a great post nonetheless.

There is also this compelling argument and direct quote from ClericsWearRingmail on the discord:

"Evil clerics are sword and sorcery AF"     

I find myself returning to some of my original inspirational materials:

-the Age of Conan supplement by Jason Vey (found HERE)

"All magic users in the Hyborian age, both scholarly (arcane) and clerical, are sorcerers...."

-THIS blog post by Roles, Rules, and Rolls

"Being a priest is not a character class but a social occupation, like being a mercenary or merchant. Priests in a religion, or those pretending to be priests, wear distinctive garb and often study sorceries related to their deity's interests."

-THIS blog post by Akratic Wizardry

"Magicians may be benevolent witches, reclusive shamans, eccentric sages, enigmatic priests, malevolent necromancers, or megalomaniacal sorcerers – their exact nature depends on their background, goals, spells, and sanity.

There is no longer any division between ‘cleric’ and ‘magic-user’ spells......Magicians of any focus who are associated with a cult or religious order might be called priests, seers, or acolytes."

-Seven Voyages of Zylarthen by Oaks Spalding (Save versus All Wands)

    Thief in place of Cleric, combined spell list, anybody can Turn Undead, etc.

-THIS four part series on polytheism that I really liked as far as inspiration goes. (A collection of unmitigated pedantry blog)

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I think that for the feel I am personally going for in Tolras, I will continue on the course of tossing the Cleric as a class. I make no claim that what I am doing is "pure" swords and sorcery, merely inspired by. (not that anyone can agree fully on what swords and sorcery means). I'm currently flirting with the idea that anyone may placate, venerate, and make sacrifice to a lawful god and have the ability to turn undead (with proper holy symbol) or to just not have turning at all. I think with the material that Tolras is inspired by, it just makes sense for me.

ClericsWearRingmails Ash Coast campaign that I play in is sword and sorcery inspired just as much as what I am working on. The interpretation described in the vyrhex blog post is also in the same boat. I do not subscribe to a monolithic definition of Sword & Sorcery where it comes to what is essentially setting details. It's just a feel man.

A thorn in my side remains though, as I was recently asked a question that throws a wrench into all my tinkerings and ideas.

If there are no Clerics, who will wear ringmail?

Edit 6/25/23: lol Clerics are in, all this waffling to come back to center.